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Hi all,

I have Honda Civic 1993 1.6 VTEC and it is suffering from being in LIMP MODE.
I own this car for nearly 3 years and it had CEL (Check Engine Light) on since. I asked few times during servicing what is that light and was told that there is a problem with oxygen sensor but it's quite expensive and has a small impact on engine power and fuel economy. So I decided not to replace it.
About 2 weeks ago while driving engine started hesitating and it swithed off when I stopped at round about and was unable to start it. While cranking it had pops and bangs out of exaust, even occasional early fires (cranking slows down instantly). Towed to garrage and technicians identified fault with distributor and had it replaced for £300. They also mentioned that they tried resetting service light but with no luck. Since then engine starts and works but I get the following symptoms which were not there before:
1. Engine is much weaker.
2. Takes about 2-3 secs of cranking to start (used to be instantly)
3. Engine sounds much louder when I step on accelerator but get no added torque.
4. There is 3500 rpm limit.

I got ECU into reporting mode and got flash codes off it. It is:
4 - CKP Sensor (Crankshaft Position Sensor) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
41 - Primary Oxygen Sensor - Heater circuit malfunction.
I'm not sure about descriptions accuracy for these codes but at least few sources stated the same. I would assume that error 4 could be keeping ECU in limp mode because I had oxygen sensor problem for a long time with no trouble.
I told technicians that I'm not happy with their repair so they suggested replacing oxygen sensor to see if that fixes the problem. Fair enough. But if it doesn't - my money wasted for nothing. So I took my Civic to Honda dealer to find out why engine is missbehaving and what caused it. They ran diags and reported fault code P1166 & P0335: requires O2 sensor and may require map sensor when O2 sensor replaced. Basically money out of the window. I asked how to get it out of limp mode but even after I told that O2 sensor was not a problem for last 3 years they insisted that CEL and limp mode is the same thing and O2 sensor needs replacing to clear CEL.

I can't express my frustration as I could have done this much myself and saving hours of wasted time and at least £300.

Now I want to see if I can do anything about CKP sensor first. Could anyone tell me where is it located and what role does it play? Can it be that significant so it keep engine in limp mode?

thanks.

ps. sorry for such a long post but I tried to give as many details as possible
 

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well the CKP is actually in the distributor, you can check it using a multi meter on the distribuor plug. get a haynes and it will give you the OHMS and pins to bridge.

i had my one go and it cause the exact same symtons.

i also had the the replacement distributor (CKP) fail a few weeks later so it does happen.

as for the lambda, i snapped mine when replacing my manifold and i drove about for a few days with no lambda at all, it will cause the car to over fuel though, do you find the rear above the exhaust gets black? and does it chuck out black smoke at higher rmp?
 

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Thanks for your prompt reply. I'm really glad you say CKP sensor is in distributor assembly as I saw this mentioned on some other forums too. I even found an on-line shop selling distributor as TD42U and stating that CKF signal sender is on it.
So I made this point at garage but an "expert" over there insists it doesn't make sense CKP sensor to be in distributor and it is a separate part located somewhere else. They know that I'm dummy and probably want to milk as much money off me as they can. I would just go to some other garage but they have already charged me for distributor and charged way too much. I don't even dear to dream of a refund and have them accepting their dodgy distributor back. I just want them to have that distributor sorted - something I have already paid for. So now I think I need to prove them that this new distributor they fitted is faulty. So I took my poor car to Honda dealer for diagnostics. What a mistake - they didn't even pick up this fault. Complete waste of time and money.
Sorry for my ignorance but I never heard of haynes. Google tells me it is some kind of repair manual? Is that right? What should I look for? Honda car repair manual? Engine repair manual? Or some sort of distributors catalogue? Can it be found on internet or it is only for sale?
In regards to lambda sensor I do think it needs replacing but I never planned to spend such amount of money on this car. I thought if bad goes to worse I just buy another one and scrap this one. But circumstances forced me to pay that money (new clutch and distributor) and now it looks like it is best to repair car to full working order and hang on to it for as long as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I thought of this too. Then I realised that it's "heater circuit malfunction" not O2 sensor itself. There's a separate code for O2 sensor malfunction.
My guess would be that ECU is not getting signal from heater or somehow can not see it functioning but it may not necessarily mean it is not functioning. Even if it is not heating the impact on O2 sensor may not be that significant because it gets hot from exhaust gas anyway. This is purely my guess though.
 

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Good morning,

I had my Civic back to Avonvale Honda to discuss yesterdays diagnostic codes. They said they don't use flash codes and they only use HDS (honda diagnostic system) to diagnose problems. They said they haven't got flash code reference and never use it as it is absolete. HDS is throwing two error codes:
P1166 - apparently this one stands for faulty O2 sensor
P0335 - and this one for MAP sensor

I get the feeling that they are wrong and would like to have it retested with some other Honda dealer which makes use of flash codes or can read error codes off ECM correctly. Could anyone advise of such a dealer please? I really lost confidence in garages and don't know where to go. I'm desperate for some "official" paperwork to back up my findings so I can go back to Mr Clutch and have them my distributor sorted.
 

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I've done this and told them that it is distributors fault because CKP sensor is on it. But they won't listen to me and insist CKP sensor is not in distributor and can be bought as a separate part. This tells me that they have no clue about post 1993 Honda engines. So I figured diagnostics report from Honda dealer stating that "CKP sensor is faulty therefore distributor needs replacing" would be an ultimate proof. I just need to find some dealer that can give me that. Unfortunately it turns out that Honda diag system at Avonvale's interprets error codes differently because CKP sensor was not listed within two codes they got off ECM. I will try Kettering Honda tomorrow but if they tell the same story as Avonvale Honda then I'm stuck...

Edit:

Just came back from Kettering Honda and am very happy with their service. Not only engineer was able to confirm my findings about CKP sensor fault on his diag system but also explained everything properly. Tomorrow gonna do some ass kicking at Avonvale Honda and Mr Clutch garrage. Can't wait.
 

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i tried to buy the CKP as a seperate item but you cant, had to shell out £180 for a new dizzy as i binned my invoice for the previous one.

do you what dizzy the garage installed? genuine honda, blueprint?

how much did they charge you for parts and labour?
 

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At Mr Clutch I've been charged £232.65 for distributor + £34.98 for fitting, but it looks like a refurb to me and can get one from http://www.bba-reman.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for £175 with 2 year warranty.
Kettering Honda dealer quoted £257.69 for brand new genuine honda + £40.94 labour
 

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sounds like an utter disaster, glad you found someone with half a brain to look at your car.

I find most techies at the dealers have only been trained on the newer stuff and no how to read a computer but cant diagnose a problem on any older cars or even understand what the fault means. Honda in carlisle is pretty good though although its rare i use them other than an emergency (damn auto tensioner lol)

Keep us updated and good luck
 

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Back from Avonvale's Honda. Very unhappy. I didn't get a refund and now they say that they did found a problem with CKP sensor. But the way they work is clear one problem at a time. So if I was to go ahead and replace O2 sensor they would have concentrated on a second problem then. Now they also gave me a photocopy of a job card which does confirm both faults and the best part that there is my signature at the bottom of the card. I signed that job card when they said they need my signature to allow them to diagnose my car. But if you look at the form now it looks like I signed it that I'm happy with their diagnostic results. Basically they tricked me into signing the blank form which has been filled in after I signed it.
So my advise to all don't believe what you are being told, read a small print and make sure you know what you are signing for, cross out all blank space so noone can add anything to it. If there's a dispute nobody cares what somebody said or not said. Paper is the only proof.
 

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Hi there, I have got similar behaviour but didn't get your Cel codes :

3. Engine sounds much louder when I step on accelerator but get no added torque. I also have like a blowing noise from under the bonnet when I reach 2500rpm and above
4. There is 3500 rpm limit. Approximately for me as I can't really go further because of the huge amount of power lost.

I got throught the MOT after changing 2 rear bulbs and one tires, and the very next day that's what happened to me.

I had a CEL code 43, then I reseted it by removing the 7.5Amp fuse under the bonnet for 10sec then put it back.It never came again, but I'm still stuck in this kind of Limp mode.
Other info : My O2 sensor is 2 years old and the spark plugs are OK.

By the way it's the D16Z6 stock engine on the very stock Del Sol.
 
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